(transcribed by Vehyon)

>> Dr. Allen Lanham
Well goood afetrnoon and welcome back to Booth Library.

We start our third week of activites celebrating the civilization of ancient Egypt, and today we have one of the library's favorite people she is the graphic-designer, and here in the library services she's also the university's photographer great artistic comrade and many projects for libraries and universities around the state.

So that will be quite a treat to welcome her will be Dr. Wafeek Wahby the chair of this series.

>> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
Well thank you for coming, and welcome to this session of the ancient Egypt symposium.

Today we are for a treat the person behind almost, I say 90% of the pictures taken if we take the Daily News out the equation is Beverly Cruse, and that's the reason why the images are so artistic because she is an artist herself, and the problem with that is that you can't see her in these images because she's always behind the camera.

So today she will roll and rock the rocks for us from ancient civilization of Egypt to see what these guys did back then to have photography quote unquote version of things.

Beverly Cruse.

>> Beverly Cruse:

Hi, hi yay.

Good afternoon, thank you for coming you know I've been really nervous about this because as they say I've always been behind a camera.

Do you know my, do you know what I have I want to show you a picture of my son, I haven't seen you in a while and let's see here.

[audience laughing]

He's changed so much since you've saw him last.

Well I must've left his picture by the door, I was using him as a door stop earlier I'm sorry.

[laughs]

Thats' just to get you, get you going those are my thoughts as I agreed to talk about Egyptian art or images from Egypt, early Egypt.

And at first I thought yeah that'd be a piece a cake and then once I got to digging into it and really seeing this wow.

No photoshop I canlt run up to the book store and get some new pens or pencils or film whatever I might need to create a project photo albums those type of things.

This civilization or this culture actually used what was available there way back B.C,  2000 B.C some of the things that I'm going to show you today are around 2,000 B.C on up, and everything that I looked at I gained a new appreciation for and I'm not a, I'm a artist from the photography stand point and it is considered an art, but to look at how they documented thier past, celebrated their families their culture and those type of things.

I feel pretty lazy really if you stop and think about it, and as you're doing you know creating a statue, and you hit the hammer wrong you start over again.

And many of the pieces that I looked at were you know fairly large pieces even look at the pyramids you know it's like what were you thinking that piece there is not going to hold that wall up you've got to start over again.

The monumental task of what they had to accomplish with the resources that they had and as a the hieroglyphics and things that I looked at and the colors the paintings and that type of thing that they did they didn't have a jar of paint they went and pulled off the shell.

They had to create those colors themsleves.

So I really gained a new appreciation for the early artist that paved the way if you will for what we're able to do today and it gives me a new sense of appreciation for creativity, talent, those things and you know it't they had alot of spare time on their hands if they weren't involved in construction of the pyramids, but they didn't have the resource sthat we have.

I can walk into my office sit down and Dr. Lanham can say I need a picture for you know boom 30 minutes later I can usually photogaph it, print it, and have it to him.

They were doing they were spending alot of time to accomplish those things, and then the heiroglyphics that you look at might be the whole story of a season of harvest or some crisis or the lifetime of a king those types of things, and those you can't accomplish over night so... 

[laughs]

I found this cartoon I had add a little bit it's like how on earth did they do that, and I've always loved this cartoon strip, and so this is what I found they're very creative they managed to capture things and sometimes kind of a crude way, but you did know what they were accomplishing, trying to accomplish.

Alot of things that they did were in their art either was for tributes to royalty, might be for funerals lots of art work was for funerals.

They really decorated the place up and it was all permanent we're lucky enough to be able to've, some of that is still available now to look at.

And then their projects they did alot of decorative arts and utiltarian pieces again they used to show different things about in their class.

Oops, let's go on up.

So...technical difficulties.

\I >> male speaker:
You have to move the mouse up.

\P >> Beverly Cruse:
I have to move the mouse over.

Clear off?

\I >> male speaker:
A no, on the screen, there you go.

\P >> Beverly Cruse:
Okay.

[laughs]

Okay, I'm a Mac person...so this is tough for me, but if you look at the details in the images and this was a long strecth of artwork that I have pieces broken down on through here that show the detail.

This was from Thebes, it's a tomb of Ramose's wall painting of a funeral procession and during the period of 1580 to 1085 in other ways that threw me too, it's reversed.

You know it messed me up because I though oh Bev. you have a typo, but no.

So then the next all the detail nad we've broken it down into parts of the procession and you'll see all the colors in the sketches and then more on the heiroglyphics in the back up in the back wall alot of detail.

Here's another section of it and that's the female mourners that they've painted into the setting of the tomb this is where they bring in the tributes in bring tribute that's looks like vegetables and that type of fruit.

Looks like we've got a leopard hanging there being given for the tribute and then more servants bearing produce to the tomb.

And then the cattle and more workers, there's a close up detail of the cow heard that they're showing.

So the detail and things that you know they're creating this just from their memory and it's left as a history for us today.

We, we rely on cameras and digital files and things and as I look through this how many of you leave your digital files on your camera until it crashes and then you have no photographs and or you put it off on your computer and then you get a new computer and you don't bother to transfer your files or back up your files.

Your history is disappearing because of that and they preserve their history in the tombs so that we could look at it today and see what their life was like.

Portrait of a lady they always, I didn't see any ugly women in any of the artwork you know I think that's great you know maybe they did have photoshop who knows, but lots of beautiful women.

And this is the from the tomb is just the ceiling of the tomb and it's a golden room cosmological scene which again lots of detail across the bottom it's like layers and how long do you think it took them to create that?

Alot longer than it would take me in photoshop you know they can't copy and paste on those pieces. 

And another thing that Papyrus was popular for to paint on and this is from one of the books and it tells a story of how they Ani's widow grieving.

The detail, the colors, and then all the heiroglyphics at the bottom is just I can just see hours it kind of reminds me of the aisleway history poster.

\I [audience--laughing]

You know blood, sweat, and tears, but they were dedicated that was their specialty and thank goodness someone found that as a vocation that they could record those for us today.

And then the next one again is this piece is on wood and a wood and steel worshiper adoring the [unclear dialogue].

The colors are so bright and such a nice variety of things, and to think that they've held up all these years just kind of blows me away.

The other thing is if they were doing sculpture they didnt have a chance, like I said they didn't have a chance to redo once you hit the chisel with the hammer it was there, and so I thought this cartoon kind of brought it home for us.

And this piece here is a it's the head of a queen and they think it was made out of yellow jasper, which I'm not sure what that material is, but they think from the design of it that is was probably it was from a composite statue where only the exposed part.

So the hands, the face, were made of jasper and then because of the yellow color that indicated that it was a woman and then the size and the detail in her mouth the scale implys that it was probably a queen.

And they think this just from this amount of the statue that they belive it was probably Akhetaten pricinpal queen Nefertiti or his secondary queen Kia.

I apologize for messing those names up didn't learn them on photoshop.

Another example of the sketches in this is a relief, and I didn't have I would imagine that it's limestone most of the other pieces were of lime stone that they've created those from, and this is tells a story of  the warriors slaying the enemies very similiar you know we have pictures today of military and war of hunters the culture that and it's not been that long ago.

Hunters went out and you know we used to eat fried rabbit you know so those are things that I have pictures of that with my dad doing that so...this is a their way of preserving that, and again heiroglyphics are in they were just like that's kind of like graffitti from todays they can't leave a blank wall they got to get in there and dig something out and move things around.

Another piece that again if you how would maybe perhaps the heiroglyphics are to hide the mistakes what do you think?

Yeah or oh shoot I didn't mean to do that so I'll just put another person in this scene no one will remember no one will know, so that I'm sure there were little ways that you could conceal your mistakes for it.

The next piece is a this is a sculpture's model and it's been broken, but it's of a it's made of limestone again and around 380 to 280 and it's a man with and Ibex and a monkey.

An Ibex is a species of a wild goat, that's over here in his hand it's pretty pocked up , but yeah you can still make out what it is.

The next piece is this one is made of from black steatite and what that is a soap rock or a soap stone and this represents the magical this is an amulet inscribed with magical spells to ward off stings and bees from deadly animals and insects representing wild nature and chaos.

The head of the protective god Bes above the Horus strengthens the magical powers.

How would you like to carry that around in your pocket so you take care of your bee stings?

Actually it wasn't that bad it was only five and a quarter inches tall and two inches and a half inches wide so that wouldn't be tto bad for  that kind of protection I guess.

The next piece is a piece from the 3rd or the 4th century and this represents or commemorates the death of Aurella Artemis perhaps you can tell me who this is?

\I >> male speaker:
One of the godesses.

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
Okay.

And because of the, this is important marble and the presidents of the greek inscription as well as a woman's pose point to the greek family  possibly christain...she looks very comfortable on the marble doesn't she?

The next piece then as well for her and because of the important marble again and the woman's elaborate dress it suggest that she came from a wealthy family.

So it appears that if you're weathly you get marble and if you're not you get limestone whenever they do something for you, but that would be an indcicator of the status of the family.

As we go on some of the things that I saw were, some of the things that I looked at they were kind of over the top and I though this little cartoon really you know represented that well.

Some of the artist ofcourse took it the next step.

This statue is of pure silver and it is in let's see its measurement nine and a half inches tall.

So I don't know how much silver is now per ounce, but that's a nice little collector's piece in memory of a woman.

Now there were no names associated with particular statues so you don't know it could've been a kings significant other or his wife or notice how they always make 'em nice and trim and pretty and all though, but out of pure silver.

The next piece the statute of Ammon is, this is gold ofcourse men get gold and women get the silver.

\I [audience laughing]

And this piece is six and seven eights inches tall so you know that's alot of money standing there, so that would indicate that this is a very honored person wealthy family.

The next piece is a tapestry shows up in alot of the pieces of the art that I was looking at and they always have a, a significant meaning this was a nereid actually a sea nymph excuse me and it renowned for the large sea nymph or nerieid.

The mythological nereid composed of a naked woman's torso descending into a fish is what we would know as a mermaid now probably, and holds a colored glass bowl in her hand she only wears expensive costly jewelry she has a large emerald around her neck, and there's sapphires look at those things hanging off her ears, and then she also has the halo around her head.

The next piece that I thought was interesting again this is terracotta this was the first piece that I ran across that was terracotta and they have several.

Terracotta, limestone, and then the metals are usually seem to be  teh most common materials for them to do  their sculptures.

This piece was originally painted in the red, black, yellow, and white and it came from the Egyptian tomb and they think that is was probably a christain woman because of the cross around her neck.

This is faded out some now, but the colors were more brightly colored.

\I >> male speaker:
Hatshepsut.

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
Hatshepsut.

\I >> male speaker:
Hatshepsut.

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
Hatshepsut, okay thank you Wafeek. 

This happens to be one of the best known of the several of the female rulers in Egypt and this piece she must, this is life size...of her.

Now then I don't know what material it didn't show what material, but to be life size it's 76 and three quarter inches tall and she apparently was very full of herself as a leader a ruler that she felt like she was qualified to take over and  run a country  which is rather uncommon in those periods.

And then the other pieces that I ran across were as I said they were either decorative art or utilitarian alot of vases, vase to carry water and those type of things and they decorated or painted scenes images and different items on of their period on their ceramic or vases, terracotta.

The next piece..this is a arm panel from the king Thutmose.

\I >> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
Mosis.

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
Tuthmosis okay the fourth, around 1400 to 1390 B.C.

The detail on it is exquisite, I was thinking oh yeah this is made carved out of ficus tree, which I always thought those were just the annoying trees that shed in your house you know I never envisioned it being them growing large enough to be able to manage a piece like that, but that's pretty incredible.

I'd like to see the rest of the piece you know that's just enough to kind of whet your appetite and see what's going on.

And then another this is a jar in the form of a woman now she's a little more plump, but the purpose of the jar was to carry a water those type of things for them terracotta.

Okay, again they...some of the things are really kind of in my sense of the word they're kind of off the wall and I wonder how, what inspired them to go there?

And this is egypt blue and I, is that a stone Wafeek?

But it's such a brilliant blue that they carved those from carved it from lots of detail.

And this is agin this is painted limestone the colors that they've used to paint are so live like and natural that they've come up with.

It just amazes that they're able to duplicate those types of things and to be that long ago.

And this is another high priest and they have them in triad on a throne.

This actually was made of granite again you wouldn't want to tap the wrong place with that or you'd be starting all over again on it as well.

I see great patience coming out of these  pieces that as I look at them that isn't something you can do in a New York minute, they've had to really think and get the design up here, and then begin to shape those pieces.

So it's just a really incredible talent this is a bas relief of warriors and it again is painted limestone and see the details across there, of their different types of weapons.

I think I'd rather have the axe than the sycamore branch, but hey you know you get whatever you get does you take whatever you can.

And then this of a hippopotamus hunt I'm wondering what they're goin to do with a hippopotamus if they get it considering the size of their boat.

[laughs]

But it's again the detail and the colors I love and the geese, ducks, whatever they're going across flying across it's just amazing what they've come up with.

Again the beauty of women come up again and again and again I believe this again is another piece of limestone.

This they think is yeah it's carved and they believe that this a sculptor's model or study in preparation of doing a final piece for their client.

She has a head dress that's topped with the protective serpants and then on the other side there was ther's which I didn't see that other picture, but there's two sides to it so they could have 3D.

But again it's out of limestone I think limestone is a nice soft material that they could work with rather quickly, and then to get a model or a pattern and to go on and do the heavy duty work.

This is a oh here's this word again Hatshepsut, okay that's a statue of her and she's beautiful isn't she.

[laughs]

Thee again this is of painted limestone.

This is the head of a woman it's a marble pigment, do not know for sure whether it's number two or number three.

It's probably close enough since they were mother daughter that would be easy to find out, they would resemble each other no matter what.

Ten and a half inches tall.

\I female speaker:
Excuse me.

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
Sure.

Okay, the next two guys are kind of they're rather entertaining they actually have a purpose they're ugly, but they this is called a kohl stick holder in form of a Bes image.

A kohl tube is actually a makeup that it's a traditional middle eastern makeup.

So how would you like to have him holding your eyebrow pencil for you every morning when you get up and go to get ready to go to work.

Sort of a whimsical looking guy and then this is a cosmetic jar in the form of the god Bes.

And he has many domestic duties and which is one of them is to protect your cosmetics and being full of imperfections.

According to [unclear dialogue] perfect is a god associated with beauty.

His hands if you'll notice there in forms of fist and there's holes on top of each one, and those were meant to hold applicator sticks that are now lost through the transition so...which I thought was awesome.

Okay, so a couple of cute little guys again another vase painted this is a terracotta style and the 3100 to 2500 B.C.

The detail is beautiful the colors and things very pleasant to look at and show images of that period.

Can you read thaton the bottom?

\I female speaker:
Is that a number on the bottom?

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
Yeah, actually I think all these art pieces are numbered if you noticed that it's a trend I think the repository that they're being held at that's a number for that.

Okay, tapestries again were very popular this one was from wool and the three in the center are the holy Micheal, holy Mary, and the holy Gabriel.

And if you'll notice around the edges these are the apostles, images of the apostles and this is in centimeters and I don't know I couldn't change it out for you, but hundreds of centimeters.

But that's in the 500's so there's alot of detail o there that they've done by hand as opposed to having a machine to do that for them.

The next couple of things are statues of husband wife or royal acquaitances however that would be I let all my acquaintances hold my left breast.

[laughs]

You know hey.

This is from a limestone you know that woman if she were alive today she probably wish  that it had blown away in the wind.

\I [audience laughing]

But again notice the detail, the hair most pieces the men are much larger they're represented as much larger people than the women, and I my take on it is they want you know they're the superior being, and the little woman following around behind them, but you know that could be incorrect.

That was one of the things that I noticed when I went through art, and it made me think of the students in the you know,.. I go to take basketball players and the little boys would always stand up on their tip toes because they wanted to be tall.

So you know just the artist that you've comissioned to do a statue of you, you can pretty much tell them that you want your hair to be really beautiful, and your pecs to be better than anyone elses, and you want your wife or female companion to be the most beautiful thing that walked on the earth, and you had those controls.

And we can't dispute that because this is all we have to go by.

That's a down side of photographs usually before photoshop they didn't lie what you saw was what you got.

This is a relief of a husband and wife again it's limestone notice all the detail and again all the heiroglyphics in the background that are showing.

This includes we have a hunch of beef, a goose, these a bunch of grapes the inscriptions besides their heads identify them, if you know what heiroglyphics are you can manage that.

Okay, but again a very detailed piece that today we would think that somebody made a mold and just mass produced them, and that isn't necessarily the case there.

The last thing that I noticed alot of was and I didn't I could've given you a whole another hour on coffin decorations the way they decorated their coffins and their you know the mummies masks and all those things, but were all pretty familiar with those things. 

But the detail the paint, the colors are really very rich and alot of time was spent to create those things.

This piece was painted on fig wood.

And my final cartoon for the day.

It is it'll make sense to our great, great, great, great, great grand kids.

\I [everyone laughing]

All that they you know now that's tongue in cheek, but you know luckily what we've they managed to recover from tombs and share you know get into museums and things we get it, and we you know recognize the talents that they possesed and the detail and the ability to create their paints, their supplies, to leave behind such a legacy is awesome. 

So thank you very much.

\I >> male speaker:
Thank you.

\I [audience applausing]

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
No hard questions.

[laughs]

>> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
Well, any questions?

Artistic, photography, [unclear dialogue] thing yes.

Microphone please.

\I >> female speaker: 
I have a question.

I don't want a microphone.

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
You have to so you can be on ugh sorry, you dont have to sing just ask a question.

\I >> female speaker: 
What does the E stand for in B.C.E?

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
I don't know, is it before i don't know B.C. is before Christ I don't Wafeek do you know?

\I >> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
Yes, has been always for two thousand years before Christ because that was the dividing history thing, but real recently to be politically correct because some people don't like to say christ name for some reason they say okay let's call it common era.

So they came up with before the common era that you and I know what it is without mentioning the name like saying the n-word or something.

So it's I hear some speaker last week in a presentation saying it is unethical to mention the name of Christ saying you say before christ because some poeple don't believe in him, so you don't ethically mention it so that you don't hurt their feelings.

Hence the B.C.E. is more...so.

\I >> female speaker: 
And I have one more question.

You had a couple of Christian relief pictures or one with a tapestry.

I woudln't think that, that's the first time I noticed any depiction of christian symbols, I thought they worshipped the pharaohs?

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
I that will have to Wafeek will have to address that.

\I >> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
Well historically, history and traditions say that Egypt became Christian in the first century, so in the day of pentecost many of the Alexandrians and the Egytptians were in Jerusalem for the hajj or pilgrimage and they became converted to Christianity came back and Evangelized.

Then added to this the tradition that Mark the apostle that towards the [unclear dialogue] of mark went to Egypt and Evangelized and became the first Pope of the this coptic order that became the coptic order of the church.

So by the end of the first century, by the year  90, 95, almost 99% of Egypt became Christian and they went away from worshipping the pharaohs and worshipping the statues and all this kind of thing, but they were persecuted so they were kind of underground church kind of.

So actually the pharaonic thing was kind of the [unclear dialogue] 300 years before Christ and the Greek came and then the romans came over a 100 years or so give and take before Christ.

So the worship of the pharaohs were really in decline at the time they were kind of [unclear dialogue]without knowing a certain god and then Christianity came and so forth.

The one's with crosses in it, I have some questions regarding this because they were persecuted for this sign.

So you don't do this and go and say hey I'm Christian come and persecute me or something.

\I [audience laughs]

So did this answer your question?

\I >> female speaker: 
Yes.

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
You know the other thing that you might remember is just because they have a cross on doesn't mean that's actually what it was.

That was a sculpture and the artist, artistic freedom might of done might of added that.

You don't know one way or the other.

You know that's the decieving part of photography, an art work is actually what you're seeing, is what I see in my picture.

What an artist paints is what their painting their vision for you to see so their interpretation of something isn't always correct, as well as your interpretation of their creation.

\I >> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
What you think the creation was.

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
Correct.

\I >> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
So evident in time I have some not questions, but I need to take to be liberal a little with the date and time.

Because by the year 400 or so when Romans became Rome became Christian, and the time of constantine the so forth Christians came above the ground, and maybe some of these were that 300 something 400 thing.

So and when we dated at the 21st century we say it was nearly what ever so most probably these were crosses were the time when Christians became out of a known.

\P >> Ms. Cruse:
Alot of the things alot of the pieces that I looked at most almost all of them had the c or circa 2000, so they couldn't really narrow it down anymore than a general well you know if you're speaking in general terms of a hundred  years look what happened, has happened in the last five years.

Now then thinking on a scale of a hundred years, how much can change just in a hundred years or so when they're looking at a span they're saying oh 2000 to 1650 or something that's a pretty long span of time that there alot of things that could've changed or happened.

So you know it gives you a sense of when it happened, but not really you know a totally accurate sense of when it happened. 

\I >> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
For example if you look to the picture of or the image of the sphinx that you see here and you see the Stela and the but, there  is maybe 2000 years between this and that.

The sphinx was there and one of the renovations after 1000 years of its, it was ancient at the time 1000 years when somebody to renovate it, but we look at it today as one piece.

I mean we look at it as because it's kind of a...

Any other questions or comments?

I have yes, let me give you this so we tape your...


\I >> female speaker:
In one of the picture and you mention it relief what that mean? 
 
\P >> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
What relief means?

>> Ms. Cruse:
A relief is just it's a surface it's a 3D surface, so it might only be about Dr. Lanham we saw lot's of reliefs when we were out.

Probably half an inch to an inch, but it's just of a thin representation of and it's just enough 3D to give you a sense of depth, changes, that shapes those type of things rather than being a flat image.

 >> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
And also the relief and still are something like this a plate that you can write on or so it's kind of a relief of something.

Talking about the 3D thing you noticed in one and all actually the drawings of the ancient Egyptians and carvings, they didn't have the natural size or dimensions.

Meaning when they draw a person looking like this they draw him this part as if it is this dimension and they have it look like this or do the hands they are all they dont have the three dimensional.

>> Ms. Cruse:
Everythings flat.

 >> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
Everything is flat yes.

>> Ms. Cruse:
And they've just turned the parts of the body enough to give the illusion of being three dimensional, but um...

 >> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
Yes.

>> Ms. Cruse:
Sometimes the proportions are pretty good alot of times they are, and some of the things that I you know ran across the eyes were like you like twice the size of what they would normally been or maybe their hand was much larger in proportion to their shoulder or their arm.

>> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
To emphasize something like they do in caricatures they have certain nose or ear or something bigger than...

Another question regarding our human nature, why is it that we want to capture the moment or seize the moment and freeze it in time if we like the smiles or sometimes the tears.

We want to look back into the memory of something and document it.

I mean cows and horses don't do that, when you drive on the high way, there happy and eating and grazing and no problem.

What is it in our human nature.

>> Ms. Cruse:
Well first of all I'll say so you think the cattle aren't...

>> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
To be politically correct.

>> Ms. Cruse:
They might appear to be happy cows, but you know probably there's some torment of the one's out there.

I think that it's the emotional side of us the emotional part of our brain that, we like to feel good, but yet there are things that you run across that you know that little my dad's screw driver for instance.

Those things trigger memories and emotions in you and I think that's the side of your brain that it thirst for sense of good bad how you cope with things.

Things taht you like to hold on to that it's just stuff, but you can store alot of things in your brain and not have alot of baggage with you that you can hold dear to you.

Recall when you need to recall it, those type of things.

You know as I showed you, you know I brought in my rocks as a just as a kick off, and can you imagine having to drag all that stuff around and thank goodness we've moved to this point, where we have photographs that we can look at them on our phone or you know or I can remember there are things that I photographed in my career as a photographer that are so real that it was just like I just photographed this 30 minutes ago.

All the senses that go with it smell, how warm it was that day or you know the temperature or who was around, the emotions that were going on with that.

So I really think it's just the, it's your connection to what ever you know some people have no feeling about stuff.

You know it's just like aww it's just stuff, and other people have friends you know they just hang on they don't want to get rid of any thing because it means alot to them so.

I think it, you know I think it's just all emotion and...

>> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:

And building on this, what you said the hollywood syndrome so to say, people like to get pictured and depicted and doing this as they're animes or look at me doing this.

So showmanship was always there I guess.

>> Ms. Cruse:
Sure, and yeah presenting yourself in the best light.

Like having your statues you know making you look like your the king of the hill type thing and that you have a beautiful wife and we have those controls and those hidden you know needs or desires that protray I don't know if you're trying to satisfy yourself or your trying to satisfy other people, but you know it's something that people tend to do.

>> Dr. Wafeek Wahby:
Well, any other questions or comments.

Now make sure when you look at picutres and images at Eiu to make sure who is standing behind those images.

Thank you, very much. 

>> Ms. Cruse:
Thank you.

[no dialogue]